Let's Talk The Theory Of Consciousness

By #491031 at 14,Apr,16 17:02

Given the fact that you don't actually exist, there really isn't much point in having this discussion.

By #458225 at 15,Apr,16 16:32

We didn't ever say, we don't exist. That would take more than one has in order to prove that, and existence is beyond that type of being proven. That which we more question are things being said about life. Those "facts" are least reliable. I say, least reliable but, what i mean to say, and probably should say is, completely fabricated, phony, fictitious.

By #491031 at 15,Apr,16 16:58

I never said that you said that you don't exist.
I said that you don't exist.
Because you don't.
When I turn my computer off, you vanish.

By #458225 at 20,Apr,16 23:23

You've realized i don't actually exist there in your computer. Brilliant!

By #491031 at 21,Apr,16 02:43

No.

You don't actually exist OUTSIDE of my computer.
Please try to keep up...

By #458225 at 21,Apr,16 03:22

But you are responding! and, not to a non-existent.

Herein is evidence. You may shut off your computer, however, this record, this dialogue, will continue "existing" inside, outside, topside, alongside, or however, it continues existing.

In this is c-o-n-s-c-i-o-u-s-n-e-s-s proven as more than just a collection of meaningless symbols.

Let's call it theory, a hunch.

By #491031 at 21,Apr,16 20:36

The fact that I am responding is no proof of your existence.
I have conversations with the voices in my head on a regular basis.
Often, they talk back.
Of course this communication exists in the form of a "dialog".
I'm not some evil, movie villain who goes around monologuing all the time. (It would be rude not to give my head-voices their say!)
As my computer is merely an extension of what passes for my mind, there is no actual "record" of this exchange except for what I imagine there to be.

By #458225 at 22,Apr,16 00:04

I understand, the fact of your responding is not proof of my existence, to you. Yes, many are living in their own little "private Idaho".

And, no offense but, most who claim to be hearing voices in their heads are those being administered psychotropics specifically for that problem.

By jayman73 at 22,Apr,16 03:25 other posts of jayman73

Reading this entire conversation melted my brain. But seriously, it is something to think about for some people. I try not to think about it, because you know, the brain melting.

By #491031 at 22,Apr,16 16:23

The fact that I am responding is not proof of your existence to ANYONE.
Which is irrelevant.
Since everything outside of my "self" is a figment of my extremely active imagination (including you), there is no one to prove your existence to.
There is no need to prove your existence because you have none.
You, sir, are a figment.

By #458225 at 22,Apr,16 16:35

--------------------------------------- added after 75 hours

JustWill, Don't just tell us what you believe, prove it.

By #491031 at 25,Apr,16 22:51

Every time I turn off my computer, you disappear.
What more proof do you need?
And who is this "us" you speak of?
For an imaginary computer-person,you sure are bossy...

By Odin_york_pa at 20,Apr,16 03:17 other posts of Odin_york_pa

Consciousness is that annoying time between naps

By leopoldij at 20,Apr,16 19:17 other posts of leopoldij

I would say it is the annoying time between naps or orgasms.

By #460385 at 20,Apr,16 16:27

Trying to explain the unexplainable at it's best.

By leopoldij at 18,Apr,16 06:59 other posts of leopoldij

I think I found it. I have the best explanation.
Consciousness is what you feel when you get caught masturbating on one of those rate occasions that you were not planning to.

By #201583 at 17,Apr,16 04:59

"You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes." Morpheus/MATRIX

By #458225 at 12,Apr,16 16:42

What proof have we that c-o-n-s-c-i-o-u-s-n-e-s-s is no more than a group of symbols put together to form a word that has no relation to anything in actuality?

By leopoldij at 12,Apr,16 19:48 other posts of leopoldij

Nobody said it's not.

By #188992 at 14,Apr,16 16:45

Cogito ergo sum - outside of that: all bets are off!

By #458225 at 15,Apr,16 16:42

If i'm understanding Descartes correctly, he was attempting to establish, to justify, the existence of a self, but did't actually prove it's existence beyond his say so.

By #188992 at 15,Apr,16 17:58

If you replace "a" with "his" you're pretty much there!
The fuller version is "Since I doubt, I think, since I think I exist". All first person stuff. Doesn't necessarily mean that there is even one other sentient mind out there.

By #458225 at 16,Apr,16 01:07

But how does one hold that which is ever changing?

By _avg_ at 16,Apr,16 06:35 other posts of _avg_

"One cannot step twice into the same river."
~Hercletus

I don't quite follow your thought though...were you making a 'Ship of Theseus' argument??

By _avg_ at 16,Apr,16 06:40 other posts of _avg_

Really??? Apart from the Cogito, there is no other argument that is so self-evident: "I think therefore I am" is as sound as any mathematical proof and as incontrovertibly irrefutable as any statement ever was...

"Truth is truth to the end of reckoning."
~William Shakespeare

By #458225 at 12,Apr,16 23:17

What is this thing you're calling "self"? Convince me it is something more than a collection of meaningless symbols.

By _avg_ at 13,Apr,16 02:26 other posts of _avg_

Actually, all symbols are meaningless; there is no inherent meaning in any jot or tittle or any other abstraction. That's precisely why language works: we imbue meaning into the empty vessel of the symbol, both abstract and physical. (Ironically, it's also why language fails; there is no universal connection to the symbols, and the meaning we intend to communicate must be learned)

More to your point, though, the 'self' is a construct that exists solely in the simulacra and simulation of the mind; it has no 'real world' correlate.

Then again, there may be no 'real world,' at all; certainly it would seem to be inaccessible to the mind.

On the other other hand, if the 'self' is an entity that exists within a simulation, and the simulation exists within the 'real world,' the problem solves itself. (no pun intended)

By #458225 at 13,Apr,16 16:21

That's very insightful!

So why do we do this to ourselves (i.e., learn another's so-called "wisdom" rather than developing our own)? Why live in a world of some other creature's creation, a creation that is in most likelihood the cause of most of our neurosis??

By _avg_ at 16,Apr,16 06:19 other posts of _avg_

Well, importantly, I should note that we can't help it -- speaking of human consciousness, the infant does not 'choose' to develop a concept of the 'self;' it is an emergent property of a functioning mind. And speaking directly to your comment, each person *does* develop their own wisdom, a conglomeration of both the borrowed or inherited and the interpreted or invented. Again, one can't help it; no one else sees the world exactly as one does.

I should expand on that last point: the development of the self is what allows us to recognize others (Solipsism notwithstanding); it is the cradle of empathy, and a necessary component of true agency within the 'real world.'

Moreover, because we can recognize other minds, we can attempt to access them through a shared symbology; again, that is language and what it is for. Because of this 'shared neuroses' I can see the world through other people's eyes, and learn things, and access what would have been otherwise inaccessible to me; I can know what a person thousands of miles -- and/or thousands of years -- separated from me was thinking.

Is it imperfect? Well, yeah; **so is every thought**. The symbols and simulations your mind creates out of the stimuli it's receiving from the 'tree' in the 'real world' (the simulacra) are an inherently and inextricably imperfect representations; the tree's 'full existence' is beyond your ability to perceive it, both in that your physical senses are limited and your perspective is irreproducably idiosyncratic.

"If the map was perfect, it would be the territory."

Speaking of accessing other people's thoughts, I think (oooo, double pun!) that you'd enjoy reading Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth"...or well, really any of his books.

By #458225 at 14,Apr,16 16:06

And what do we tell our offspring, "this is a t*r*e*e, but, not really"!?

By _avg_ at 16,Apr,16 06:26 other posts of _avg_

"In the beginner's mind, the mountains are mountains and the rivers are rivers. In the learner's mind, the mountains are no longer mountains and the rivers are no longer rivers. In the Master's mind, the mountains are once again mountains and the rivers are once again rivers."
~Zen saying (attr. Hsing Hsing)

By cardinal at 15,Apr,16 18:42 other posts of cardinal

I believe our concience is a mental **** too percieve further in regnition..

By #153287 at 14,Apr,16 12:39

Our consciousness is what tells us who we are and how to behave, like a human acts like a human, an animal like the animal they are and tree like a tree. Our consciousness can travel outside our bodies and lives on after we die with our energy.

By #435701 at 12,Apr,16 17:24

Being self aware...Many **** are also self aware. Likely everything on planet Earth is self aware, each in their own individual ways.
--------------------------------------- added after 37 seconds

How come we cannot say ani...mals?

By leopoldij at 12,Apr,16 19:48 other posts of leopoldij

Because best*iality is prohibited in here, by law.

By #435701 at 13,Apr,16 15:59

But, I certainly did NOT use the word that way! Sure you are right, though.

By #491031 at 13,Apr,16 16:06

You also can not use the word z00. This is to prevent zebra fuckers from hanging out here...

By leopoldij at 13,Apr,16 17:39 other posts of leopoldij

Let me try: ****
--------------------------------------- added after 23 seconds

You're right!
Let me try something else: ****
--------------------------------------- added after 71 seconds

That was S L E E P.
It's also prohibited.

By #485312 at 13,Apr,16 06:50

is the state of being conscious and not un=concious *lix*

By mr_blue at 12,Apr,16 02:26 other posts of mr_blue

Simply put...it's energy...

the strength and vitality required for sustained physical or mental activity.

All descriptions of reality are temporary hypotheses.

By #496814 at 12,Apr,16 02:20

Our consciousness is the combination of a by our own mind, dna and by society created identity of ourselves as individuals and our ability to think about and construct such an identity. I believe it is likely that many **** also have a conscious of their own. The only difference is that they can't communicate with us about it or leave written proof they do have one.

I wonder though if there is anyone in this world or someday wi'll be who perceives his/her consciousness as the same way as I do. If so, what is the consequence of that fact on my individualalism? Am I still an individual then, or is my identity fully made of my dna and surroundings?

Imo, our consciousness will vanish with us when we die.

By leopoldij at 12,Apr,16 00:34 other posts of leopoldij

Ha, getting philosophical now? My answer is that we don't know and, probably, we can't tell unless we look at ourselves without being ourselves which is practically impossible.

Let's Talk The Theory Of Consciousness

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